Wyoming state lawmaker Bob Ide wore a black cowboy hat as he thumbed through binders and books that were sprawled across a table in his Casper office.
" I've been immersed in this for 10 years," the Republican legislator said.
By this, he means the U.S. Constitution and legal justifications that most federal lands shouldn't be federal. He thinks they should be handed over to states.
"Just kind of always wondered, why do we still have all of these federal lands?" Ide said.
In Wyoming, the feds own almost half of the land, a trend that holds across the vast Mountain West. Neighbors such as Nevada and Utah have vastly more government land holdings and have chafed under the tensions inherent with that ownership.
" I started learning more and more and understanding that by the letter of the law, the supreme law of the land, the U.S. Constitution, Congress is required to dispose," Ide explained.
He subscribes to a niche argument that Congress is constitutionally obligated to hand over ownership of its land. In recent years, that line of thinking has gained traction among mostly conservatives who want to preserve the U.S.'s first principles.
There's an even wider audience who haven't studied like Ide, but have problems with how they think the government manages mineral leases or restricts ATVs on roads.
But not all conservatives feel the same way. That includes Republican U.S. House Rep. Ryan Zinke of Montana.
"So there's a lot of frustration out in the West. I understand that," he told reporters while standing in front of the U.S. Capitol. "I give an example, as a hotel, If you don't like the management of a hotel, don't sell the hotel. Change the management."
Zinke, who recently helped launch the Public Lands Caucus, was among Republicans who recently killed an amendment in the upcoming federal budget bill that would have sold more than 11,000 acres of federal land to Utah and about half a million to Nevada to address the housing crisis. Meanwhile, a federal task force continues to look at ceding some parcels.
But people like Bill Howell in Hurricane, Utah, think those efforts are small potatoes and wants the federal government to dispose of land on a much larger scale. He said people spend too much time on tiny battles.
"We're going, 'Wait a minute. Why are you worried about those roads, for crying out loud? They're not even supposed to own the land,'" said Howell, who retired after a career at a multi-county planning agency.
When he's not tending to his backyard fruit orchard, he's writing the books found in Ide's office. His argument rests on a constitutional doctrine about something called "equal footing."
"Every new state, including Wyoming, is specifically admitted into the union on an equal footing with the original states," Howell explained.
That means the 13 colonies out east, which now have very little federal land. Howell said states out west aren't on equal footing with them since they don't have the same amount of territorial sovereignty.
He also pointed to the Constitution's Property Clause, which says that Congress "shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States."
Howell sees this as a mandate to sell off land.
"So the powers given to the federal government were not suggestions," he said. "They were duties."
But people like Gregory Ablavsky disagree.
"This really is empowering Congress rather than imposing a limitation on what Congress can do," the Stanford Law School legal historian said.
According to Ablavsky, there's roughly two centuries of precedent from courts and Congress that back this up.
"I think it's really important to stress, right, those arguments lost, they were rejected," Ablavsky said.
He added that all this land didn't even belong to states in the first place. It was occupied by Native Nations, many of whom are worried they could lose access under state control.
Conservation groups also say states can't manage more land and worry it could be sold to private interests, but Ide said Wyoming has a "public lands culture" and most people won't want to sell it off.
" I mean, what's to say the U.S. government isn't gonna sell it off to the highest bidder?" said Ide, back in his office, wearing a shiny, gold belt buckle that says "Honor Wyoming," the name of a conservative political group in the state.
Ide introduced a resolution in the state legislature earlier this year to demand Congress hand over almost all the federal land within state borders, with the exception of Yellowstone National Park. He said the goal is to make it state public land.
"My oath that I swore to at the legislature was to obey and defend the Constitution," Ide said, "and that's what I'm trying to do."
His resolution failed to move forward by one vote. He plans to reintroduce it next year, but even if it passes, Congress could still choose to ignore it.
Utah passed a bill in 2012 with similar demands that haven't been met. Last year, the Beehive State also sued the federal government to take over nearly 20 million acres. The U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear the case.
This story was produced by the Mountain West News Bureau, a collaboration between Wyoming Public Media, Nevada Public Radio, Boise State Public Radio in Idaho, KUNR in Nevada, KUNC in Colorado and KANW in New Mexico, with support from affiliate stations across the region. Funding for the Mountain West News Bureau is provided in part by CPB.
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