The last three Utah Attorneys General have been hit with scandal and notoriety. The current officeholder, Sean Reyes, has been in hot water due to his involvement with disgraced Operation Underground Railroad founder Tim Ballard as well as his refusal to release his work calendars despite a judge’s order to do so.
Reyes decided not to run for reelection. That gave four candidates at the Oct. 1 debate hosted by the nonpartisan Utah Debate Commission the chance to tell Utahns why they should be the state’s leading lawyer.
Democrat Rudy Bautista, Republican Derek Brown, Libertarian Andrew McCullough and Michelle Quist of the United Utah Party all agreed on the office’s need to be independent of polarization. Each emphasized the need to increase transparency and all committed to release their work calendars if elected.
But they didn’t all agree on how to approach the issues the state is up against.
Building trust with Utahns
The last three Republicans to be elected have been met with scrutiny and even criminal charges. John Swallow and Mark Shurtleff were investigated for fraud by the FBI. Reyes has been accused of witness tampering on behalf of Ballard who has been accused of sexual misconduct and fraud.
Quist, a former Republican, postured herself as an “independent voice” with the intent to “return integrity to the office” and “break the partisan ties that have led to corruption and scandals.”
She promised to quit litigating against journalists fighting to obtain Reyes' work calendars. She also stated she would push back against the Legislature if she believed the body acted unconstitutionally.
Quist pointed to Amendment D, which has been ruled void by the Utah Supreme Court, as an example. She called the amendment “deceptive” and “confusing.”
“We need a nonpartisan, independent attorney general who is willing to speak up and say to the people of Utah, ‘This is what the Legislature is doing. This is how it will affect your rights.’”
The office “has been politicized for far too long,” she argued and “some on this stage want to keep it that way,” alluding to the only Republican on stage.
For his part, Brown, a former state lawmaker and GOP party chair, said he would be a check on the governor and Legislature. To him, the attorney general is “responsible to the people who elect that person.” Still, Brown said politics is inevitably part of the job. It’s an elected position that also works with the other elected officials.
“But more important than that, it's a position that involves leadership, setting a vision and a direction for what is the largest law firm in the state of Utah,” he said. “I will … make sure that the Attorney General's Office not only is transparent but that it is the most respected law firm in the state of Utah.”
Bautista, a defense attorney and veteran, is running as a Democrat but he considers himself an independent. He pledged to “make sure that the office is run with integrity and honor.”
To prove it, Bautista said he has not taken any money from supporters because the office “should be free from any campaign donations” so people know the attorney general is there to serve the people and not “corporations and other organizations.”
“The Attorney General has been nothing but a puppet for the last three administrations,” he said. “Their role is to protect the citizens, and it's also to protect the pocketbooks of the citizens and to bring an end to frivolous lawsuits.”
McCullough, true to his Libertarian stance, said he wants the office to be “kinder and gentler to its citizens” by cherishing the Bill of Rights and supporting individual freedoms.
McCullough said he would not be “beholden” to someone who disagrees with him, including the governor. He believes the attorney general “can do a lot of things with his bully pulpit” to speak out against inappropriate action.
“I think he can go to the Legislature and he can say this law that you're about to pass is dumb. He can also say that it's unconstitutional. He can also say that it's too expensive,” McCullough said.
Public lands
Reyes, Gov. Spencer Cox and the Legislature sued the federal government over Utah’s “unappropriated land” in August. Utah believes 18.5 million acres of Bureau of Land Management land should be in its own hands.
Quist said she would negotiate with the federal government over public lands but also “sometimes lawsuits work.” She gave the example of roads going unfixed on public lands that could potentially obstruct emergency services in the event of a disaster.
“These are the types of cases that are important to prosecute,” she said but she wouldn’t litigate every public lands case presented to her.
Bautista said people need to stop “the divisiveness” over public lands because “it's all just political speech [and] rhetoric to get people excited.”
In his view, no one is being denied access to public lands. They are open to sheep and cattle ranchers, those who want to recreate on it and those who want to shoot their guns on the land.
“This is all rhetoric to get the state to take over the land so that we can sell them for corporate greed,” Bautista said.
Brown thinks negotiations and lawsuits are both necessary to fight the federal government over land issues. He stood firm that Utah should continue its legal fights.
He refuted Bautista’s claim that no one was being denied access. Brown said he’s spoken and worked with people “directly impacted” by government action to restrict land use.
“It is critical that as a state, we have the ability to control it [public lands] and not individuals who are unaccountable, 1,800 miles away,” Brown said of Washington.
McCullough conceded that he doesn’t have the right answer on public lands. He’s looked at the most recent lawsuit “carefully,” he said, and remains unconvinced that it’s the right move.
McCullough said he’s concerned about what Utah would do if the court ruled in its favor. His general impression is that it’s a “money grab” when the state wants to own federally-managed land. He doesn’t think the state has the resources to take care of the land.
“It's not commercially viable. It's not stuff that you can make money on. And I worry very much that the state, if they win this, could shoot themselves in the foot,” he said.
Although, he said he could change his mind on the matter, “at least in part.”
Social media
Utah paved the way when it came to regulating social media. The Legislature passed laws restricting social media access for minors and put up guardrails for how social media companies can interact with them. They even filed lawsuits against TikTok and Meta, claiming social media usage is hurting Utah children and the companies are doing nothing to stop it.
But the laws have been blocked following a U.S. District Court ruling over First Amendment concerns.
Bautista believes the Utah’s actions against social media companies violate freedom of speech and that “parents need to take responsibility to rear their children how they deem appropriate.”
“When we have government intervention in freedom of speech, when we have government intervention in freedom of religion, we have tyranny,” he said.
He added that he would need to look at the lawsuits before fully determining if the state should pursue them but that he is “inclined to not.”
Quist used the question over social media as a chance to attack Brown. As an attorney, Brown has represented social media companies in the past. Quist questioned how he could prosecute the cases as attorney general with “a clear conflict of interest.”
“If he had legal experience, he would know that a lawyer cannot sue a former client,” she said.
Brown dismissed the attack, saying there are hundreds of lawyers in the attorney general’s office which deals with conflict of interests “all the time.” He noted that Quist should know that but “she's just hoping that you don't know that.” She shot back saying she does know, but Brown shouldn’t “trump up his experience, because he can't use it.”
Quist said social media companies would be one of her top action items. To her, “it’s a balancing act” between “protecting First Amendment rights of Utahns versus any harms that might come to our children on social media.” But that Utah hasn’t yet figured out that balance.
Overall, she believes it’s “the responsibility of the parents and not the government” to figure out how to deal with social media in their child’s life.
Brown said he would “absolutely keep the lawsuits moving forward” against the social media companies. To him, it’s important to keep signing on to various lawsuits in order to help identify the right balance Quist mentioned.
As a former attorney who has represented Meta, Facebook’s parent company, he positioned himself as a potential leader in this space, especially because he has brought important stakeholders to the table to identify possible solutions.
“It's a fight that we have to keep moving forward on,” Brown said. “Our kids are too important.”
McCullough said he was “chuckling at the question” because he’s 76 years old and “probably the only one in this building who does not carry a smartphone.” He said while he uses Facebook every day, he believes people have the ability to control what they see, who they are friends with and how they use the platform.
“I use it when I can, and I enjoy it, and I am certainly not going to censor it,” McCullough said. “Frankly, I'd like to see a lot of parents throw them and throw their stuff in the toilet.”
